Brian Cahill
Brian Cahill
Arturo Castro Nava
Arturo Castro Nava
MCAA Management
How new H2020 funding rules affect MC projects in Germany
Hello everyone,
A while back I learned that the EC modified its salary payment rules to make H2020 projects competitive with national projects:
http://ec.europa.eu/research/research/index.cfm?pg=newsalert&year=2017&na=na-270217 https://ec.europa.eu/research/press/2017/pdf/270217_memo_en.pdf
As a MC researcher in Germany I earn less than my coworkers (which are paid according to TUV13), so I was very happy to read about that. I sent an e-mail to my project officer and she responded that the MC GA differs from the general GA in eligibility of costs, the wording in the change in funding rules makes it sound that it affects all H2020 projects, even retroactively. Does anyone have any experience with this or done some research themselves?
Hope to learn more,
Sander
11 Comments
Hi Brian,
do I understand correctly that you received TV-L 13/5 after your MC fellowship? Was the time of the fellowship part of your 10 years experience? What seems to happen quite often with my employer is that after being out ot the tariff system (unemployment, motherhood, fellowships), they set you automatically back to 13/1 when you reenter. Unless you notice, complain and start negotiating. After finishing my MC project, I will return into the tariff system. I wonder how I can convince them that the time spent on the MC project counts as experience towards the tariff system?
Best,
Astrid
Hi Astrid,
I must say I had no problems whatsoever with getting my experience recognised. All of my work experience was recognised - even when I worked in industry before I started PhD. I think this was partly because 100% of this work experience was in Switzerland and Germany and directly compatible with the German system. As Ed said, it depends strongly on how the hiring manager negotiates with admin.
Often administrators will not recognise the years of experience on scholarships without a work contract. These are very common in many countries during PhD. Previously many foreign researchers were employed in Germany on stipends without a work contract - this has changed in recent years.
I would argue that your MSCA fellowship is comparable to the status of "wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiterin" because you had a normal work contract as a researcher. If not, ask the Betriebs-/Personalrat to represent you.
As regards comparing MSCA fellows with German colleagues, somebody will have to decide what is comparable. I think the host institutions are the obvious choice to do this - they understand TV-L and pay the salary. They may be reluctant to take an overly generous decision that could be used against them if they eventually hire the researcher after the end of the contract (no good deed goes unpunished). Maybe I am too pessimistic despite my own overwhelmingly positive experience.
Warm regards,
Brian
However unfortunately the time spent on stipends during doctorate and even as a Hiwi counts full (even if hiwi was part time) towards the limit of 16 years you are allowed to work without a permanent contract :(
Like Brian I decided to stay, and my salary more or less stayed the same on the TV-L system. It did however require a lot of negotiation, not by me but between my boss and the admin department. In the end we agreed that my boss would write a letter stating I had performed really well during my MC, and the admin department accepted this as evidence that I should have my time as an MC recognised. Hope that helps!
How is with still ongoing MC grants which do not belong to Horizon2020 but to the previous FP7? Is the retroactivity applicable?
thanks for help and useful discussion for many in the same situation in Germany
I think it would be best for me to ask the National Contact Point about how this will be implemented in Germany before we raise too many hopes.
Thank you Brian and Edward for sharing your experiences!
Unfortunately the National Contact Point says that this change in the rules of H2020 doesn't apply to MSCA and only applies to H2020 projects where salaries are paid on the basis of "unit costs".
He mentioned that most universities pay MSCA Fellows on the basis of BGB. The MSCA model employment contracts for Germany mention BGB §611. This law seems to be extremely general. Some host institutions prefer to use TV-L - this means they have to find 60k€ extra to pay ITN fellows during the fellowship. Some German institutions have forbidden their research groups from applying for ITNs - the BMBF, the universities and the Bundesländer are looking at ways to solve the problem.
He mentioned IFs being employed under TV-L 13/1 with only minimal extra costs for the institutions. This means ignoring the relevant experience of the IF during their PhD and any other relevant experience they may have had.
My opinion is that the MSCA fellowships sell themselves as offering slightly better conditions and pay than normal national academic salaries. This is not the case in Germany and the Netherlands. Maybe MCAA can recommend that the Commission reconsider the "Country Correction Factors" for such countries..
From what I was told, one normally starts from Stufe 1, one year later goes to Stufe 2, then 2 years later to Stufe 3, 3 years later to Stufe 4 and so forth. Your experience generally only influences which Entgeldgruppe you are on, and you then starts from Stufe 1. Not saying it's impossible to start from the middle but it normally takes a hell of negotiations.
Incidentally, TU München actually adopts the MSCA employment contract model, so we are employed as EU-Forscher, and after the subtraction of employer contributions our pay is close to TV-L 13/4.
It is up to each group/university to decide and depends on the tasks one has. imo and experience is possible to use the MC funded years to get a jump in the STUFE at the 3 years contract (in which the salary is indeed fixed)
Hi Sander,
I agree with you that payment of MSCA grants in Germany can be less than that paid to colleagues.
The scale that most comparable researchers are on is the TV-L E13: http://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tv-l/west?id=tv-l&g=E_13&s=1&zv=VBL&z=100&zulage=&stj=2017&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=&kk=15.5%25
This depends on how long you have worked in a comparable job. The steps 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are after 0, 1, 3, 6 and 10 years experience. I had 10 years experience by the time my fellowship finished and my salary increased.
It must be said that many German researchers (particularly PhD students) are employed part-time (typically 50%) and work more than full-time. This is more common in Humanities, Social Sciences, Life Sciences and Chemistry.
You and I are both engineers. Engineering is highly dominated by men and engineers tend to be paid 100% of TV-L. The MSCA is very highly supportive of gender equality and men and women get the same deal regardless of what discipline they come from. This is something that MCAA supports wholeheartedly. I would prefer to see a rise in salaries across the board for all members.
Warm regards
Brian